I agree with Paul, It's better not to use sawdust and ca.If you can get the slivers to fit tightly,thats probably your best bet. And then there's always a nice dark sunburst
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| Author: | ms960 [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:07 am ] |
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I've got the binding on my guitar, and have done some scraping and rough finishing to the back, sides, and top. I have noticed however, that the bindings around the top have left some gaps between the bindings and the spruce. This was caused primarily by the cheapo router I initially used (and which was subsequently replaced). I was wondering if there was a good way of filling these gaps? I guess I could use some CA and sand the spruce, which would create spruce sawdust that might fill the gap, but my attemps at using CA for gap filling on the sides reveals that it leaves a dark spot that needs to be entirely sanded down (creating a trough). I humbly ask the experienced community here for any insight and assistance on this so I don't further degrade the look of my guitar. Regards, Mark |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:20 am ] |
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bump I had to sand down dark spots too, it turned out ok but would like to hear more on that also! Thanks for asking |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:32 am ] |
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Sawdust will always look darker than the adjoining wood as it's end grain against non-end grain. So that's not a very good option. Nothing and I mean nothing will make this go away. But there are a couple of things you might try to hide it a bit. Agains the spruce top you could use small slivers of spruce stuffed into the gap. Take another soundboard and plane off a few curls and cram them in there. Then glue them with your glue of choice (hide glue being the least noticable). That's the best "fix". You could also play around with some putty. I haven't used this but I would think you could find something at the hardware store that might match pretty well. The best fix for this is to route them off and do it right. Not the words you want to hear but no matter how well you mask it, you will always see it and it will drive you crazy. Chalk it up to experience and try again. |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:39 am ] |
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I agree with Paul, It's better not to use sawdust and ca.If you can get the slivers to fit tightly,thats probably your best bet. And then there's always a nice dark sunburst
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:41 am ] |
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Spruce is very hard to match properly with sawdust and CA or epoxy. I find that it is always darker. On my first there were a few small gaps like this and I tried many things. The best I found was taking a very small sliver of spruce (from the off-cut that was left) and shaping it to fit the gap and then gluing it in with Hot Hide Glue. This of course will work very well on the sides when you're with the grain. It becomes less ideal at the bottom or top of the guitar since you're across the grain. But still, it looks better than sawdust and CA, in my opinion. You can also try to match the binding instead of the top. It all depends on the color of the binding and the size of the crack. I know that Koa and East Indian Rosewood both work very well with CA to hide imperfections. (especially the EIR). Remember to alway seal the top before applying CA on there. The CA can be absorbed in the top and you'll get a spot where the finish won't take/absorb so well and you'll wind up with a blotch... I was also contemplating getting some different dyes and trying them out with epoxy. I haven't gotten around to trying this but I'm convinced in can be done and the results can be near perfect. Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:54 am ] |
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First off the curls is the best method and the only one I would use. That said and having done a bit if inlay on light wood. I have found that a real light Aspen end grain dust and titebond come as close to most Sitka and Addie as I have found but is real hard to get the hue right. I would not use this a guitar top. To show how much end grain dust will darken, 80% Big leaf Maple dust and 20% Sapele dust by dry volume, and well blended while dry and then using titebond as the boning slurry makes a reasonable match for Sapele. Now think how much darker Sapele is as compared to Maple  |
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| Author: | ms960 [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:13 am ] |
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Thanks guys. Looks like I'll have to live with the gaps. There's only a few, and most of them are okay. There is one glaring gap in the upper bout near where the neck attaches, however, that will be the biggest eyesore (it's about 1/32" to 1/16" wide). Experience is a great teacher. |
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| Author: | JBreault [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:28 am ] |
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Another option might be to rout a very small chanel in between the binding and the top and inlay a pufling line. Kind of like how you would add purfling to a violin. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:30 am ] |
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1/16" ? Did your router get away from you or did you not get the binding pushed all the way to the ledge? If it's option #2 I can't believe you have much binding left after scraping. If I were you, I'd definately fill it. You'll want to essencially make a cross cut with a plane so you have the grain lines oriented in the right direction. Give it a try, it might turn out to be unnoticeable. |
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| Author: | ms960 [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:33 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Pwoolson] 1/16" ? Did your router get away from you or did you not get the binding pushed all the way to the ledge? If it's option #2 I can't believe you have much binding left after scraping. If I were you, I'd definately fill it. You'll want to essencially make a cross cut with a plane so you have the grain lines oriented in the right direction. Give it a try, it might turn out to be unnoticeable. [/QUOTE] Not quite 1/16", but approaching it. It was a cheap router and didn't hold the bit well, I was inexperienced, and it was just a harrowing process. The binding is flush, the gap is inside where the binding attaches (don't ask me how I did that...I honestly don't know). I don't have any soundboard left but do have some pine laying around. Might try to cut some slivers from that and see how it goes. |
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| Author: | JBreault [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:35 am ] |
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[QUOTE=ms960] [ I don't have any soundboard left but do have some pine laying around. Might try to cut some slivers from that and see how it goes. [/QUOTE] I'm not so sure the pine will blend in with the spruce. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:36 am ] |
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Can you just route the binding and purfling off and do it again? this time perhaps with a better router? Otherwise you will always cringe when you see this.... trust me... 
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:10 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Pwoolson] You'll want to essencially make a cross cut with a plane so you have the grain lines oriented in the right direction. Give it a try, it might turn out to be unnoticeable. [/QUOTE] Now, why didn't I think of that!!??? I swear sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees...
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:41 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling] Can you just route the binding and purfling off and do it again? this time perhaps with a better router? Otherwise you will always cringe when you see this.... trust me... [/QUOTE] That's what I was thinking too.
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 am ] |
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Ahh, gap filling is a chore!! I funnily enough had to do this myself on a couple of spots...luckily my shop floor contained some shavings from when I routed the soundboard to create a ledge for the purfling...I first made the "chips" a little smaller to plug the tiny gaps with AR glue, then a larger "patch" glued over the top of the gap, slightly inset so that I wouldn't end up sanding the whole thing off... Now the trick is to get that larger shaving to stay put...holding it in place for 60 seconds then gently stroking it with the edge of a scalpel blade to press it flush onto the grain. I am in the stage of leveling the purfings and bindings to the soundboard, and all is well. I asked somebody to spot my mistakes, and they couldn't find em... 
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| Author: | ms960 [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:30 pm ] |
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Wanted to post an update to my dilemna. First, for all who weighed in, your advice and assistance is greatly appreciated. What I did was took some white AR glue and cut it in half with water. I used some fine sandpaper on the spruce top and created some spruce sawdust, spread the cut glue with the tip of a toothpick into the gaps I was filling, and using a razor blade, scraped the dust into the gap onto the glue and worked it in. Results -- a completely filled gap that matches the top exactly. You can, obviously, see where the gap was, as it's not seamless and invisible, but at least there is no gaping hole. About as good as I can expect considering. Lesson learned however -- cheap tools give cheap results! To give credit where it's due, this idea wasn't mine. John Hall of Blues Creek Guitars kindly suggested it after a plea of help went out to him. He has been very kind with his time and his expertise. Mark |
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